ruptured blood vessels

Readiness, standby, and stabilization topics
Post Reply
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 2:52 am
Relationship with Alcor: Member

ruptured blood vessels

Post by immortality » Thu Oct 13, 2011 10:59 pm

Not having a first hand – hands on knowledge of the stand by and preservation process I am relying on the knowledge gained from the Alcor and Suspended Animation publically released material. If some of my concerns show my lack of ignorance and are hence irrelevant in this area then I apologise for the inconvenience but I am also definitely going to contact the technical/medical department and suspended Animation to help me to clear up any shortfalls in my medical understanding.
My understanding of Alcors corporate mission/private contract with myself is that they are undertaking (pun not intended) to preserve my physical remains after pronouncement in the best state possible. My reading of the agreement documents leads me to understand that Alcor also undertakes to make their best effort t to ensure my successful revival when this becomes technically and logistically possible in the future. My concern is to make the best possible cryopreservation that is possible to achieve given current understanding, technology and circumstances.
I understand that there are no absolute guarantees of outcomes or success given the many technological logistical legal and medical etc etc challenges that could occur.
Current policy/day to day operation of Alcor seems to be quite occupied with providing standby and stabilization at end of life scenarios with as quick as possible transport to the Alcor facility for full preparation and subsequent cryopreservation and storage. Emphasis seems to be on getting the deceased person stabilized as soon as possible after pronouncement, obtaining the best end of life care available to suit Alcors accessibility for preservation and avoiding medical/mortuarial legal and logistic log-jams which prevent or delay the speed of this process. Much Alcor R&D seems to be happening to perfect this process technically. This is perfectly understandable given that at this point in time revival is impossible so concentration is on the best successful preservation.
I understand that this contract is a 2 way street with Alcor members designing their end of life care and post pronouncement documentation to minimize any foreseeable delays and dramas and to do their best to be as close as possible to the Alcor facility if they have forewarning of an end of life scenario.
Unfortunately it is a given that there are many different ways to meet ones end. Not all lives will end under (Alcor) ideal circumstances during hospice or hospital care. Current USA motor vehicle military and gun culture heightens the possibility of meeting ones end in traumatic fashion. There are many ways and places to die which could see ones possible chances of being OR of worth being cryopreserved severely compromised. In addition the most common ways to die in today’s society: heart attack, cancer, stroke, Alzheimer’s disease all have cryopreserving complications of their own.
The main focus of my present concern is having a cerebro-vascular accident due to an occluding thrombus/atherosclerotic plaque blockage or burst aneurysm. Also having an occluding blockage in the lungs or a burst aneurysm in a large vessel such as the aortic arch;descending aorta or abdominal aorta could also give rise to the technical problems with successful stabilization that I am about to explore.
Present knowledge seems to regard the cerebral cortex as the depository of stored knowledge/memory/personality/life experiences that make each human unique. This is what we are seeking to preserve. Present thinking says that other body organs will not be so important to the preservation process as they can be cloned /repaired/ rebuilt by whatever method is developed in the future enabling entire body function to be resumed. This is seen in many Alcor members opting for neuropreservation only.
However, it is of little use to have a functioning body without the presence of a fully functioning preserved personal identity; a consciousness ongoing from the previous life cycle. To this end I feel that Alcor should make every technical effort available to them NOW to enhance this possibility.
My main cause of concern is that once a major blood vessel ruptures in the brain a large volume of blood will escape into the cerebral tissues. To what degree these cerebral tissues may be damaged depends on the site and the severity of the rupture. This pool of blood that has spread into the cerebral tissues is cytotoxic – its very presence is destructive to neural tissue, The longer this process continues the worse the damage. This blood then tries to/forms a large clot putting pressure onto the brain.
In the normal course of medical treatment emergency measures may sometimes be taken to deal with this but often because of many different logistical or medical reasons and time constrains these ruptures, blood pools and large clots are not always dealt with.
This is particularly so if the patient dies because then no effort is made to solve this situation. Conventional medical thinking says the person is dead anyway – bury them – it is of no concern to them whatsoever. Unfortunately for the person seeking cryopreservation who meets his/her end this way this is not so. This cytotoxic blood which is left in place will destroy neural tissue quickly. What is left to preserve will be mush.
Secondly my understanding is that after pronouncement a heart/lung stimulator is put in place to reactivate circulation and oxygenation. Thus the reactivated circulation will push blood through the body into the already ruptured blood vessels adding to the already existing blood spillage. This circulation will also be hampered by the rupture of a major vessel losing blood pressure preventing correct venous return to the heart and inhibiting blood and oxygen perfusion in the tissues.
My understanding is that at this time a central line is kept in/put in place to ensure speedy delivery of certain pharmaceuticals which slow down the deterioration process. Again the downstream delivery of these substances to their target tissues will be impeded by the presence of a major vessel rupture.
My understanding is that under ideal conditions a “washout” may then be performed on site in the field. During this procedure blood is emptied from the body and replaced with cryopreservant. This is done “by surgically accessing a patients large blood vessels and connecting these to a cardiac bypass machine”
.This involves opening a femoral: abdominal aorta, aortic ach: right auricle of the heart or the carotid artery depending on the circumstances of the medical situation. So if one (or more) of these vessels is the site of the rupture or blockage alternatives can be used. Again if there is a rupture of one of these major vessels leakage will occur here and down line circulation and delivery of cryoprotectant substance will be compromised and I suspect pressure that is needed to be generated to enable the clearance in smaller arteries and capillaries of the remaining blood will be compromised. If it is necessary to open the body to perform this procedure why then could these major blood vessels that are ruptured also be repaired at this time.

It is my understanding from the Suspended Animation literature that they are seeking to speed up this process of early stabilization and cooling in the field by using new techniques and technologies as they are developed in the future. In this situation I would theorise that the repair of blood vessels at this time would become an even greater issue particularly since this would need to be done while the body is still relatively warm and pliable.

The body is then iced and transported to the Alcor facility. Here the body is flushed thru with cryopreservant to be quickly cooled in a computer controlled progressively increasing under pressure situation.
My concerns during this process are several:
1. The beautifully controlled pressurized flushing process will be made more difficult to achieve technically due to the open ended burst blood vessels continually leaking and hence causing total circulatory pressure feedback loss.
2. The washing away of blood pools that have accumulated in the extra cellular spaces or in other areas of the body where there have been ruptures would compromise the circulation of cyroprotectant.
3. The undesirable blood/wastes that are trying to be flushed out would not be completely removed.
4. The cryopreservant and other beneficial pharmaceuticals that are trying to be delivered would not reach their targeted tissues and/or create extra pressure pools in areas where fluid under pressure now leaks out of still ruptured blood vessels.
5. Already partially damaged or dissolved brain tissue (from the ruptures and the big clot that has formed) maybe at risk of being flushed out of the body and thus lost forever.

What I am talking about here is using the best of today’s resources and knowledge to maximise the future revival success. This may even save Alcor money in the long tem as costs involved in revival (being of a much more highly complex nature than cryopreservation) must far outweigh today’s costs of preservation.

I understand that there are always financial and other challenges involved but if it is already necessary to open major blood vessels to enable the delivery of pharmaceuticals and cryopreservant how hard can it be to close them. Yes it may be a little bit trickier in the brain but if observation holes must be opened to monitor brain swelling and cryoprotectant effusion success how much more difficult can it be to repair a burst aneurysm.

If technical/surgical effort can be expended to prepare a once whole body for neuropreservation; a procedure involving transection of the preservees spinal column: I don’t understand why a whole lot less effort could be made to repair major ruptured vessels. Given that the person is already dead this would not seem that legally or logistically difficult to do.

What we are talking about here is a quick easy readily performable action that could enhance the quality of preservation. Alcor could even positively spin this promotionally demonstrating their commitment and adaption to new technologies and ideas and showing their desire to step up to a greater level of responsibility in the fulfilment of their mission statement.

Posts: 67
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 11:09 pm
Relationship with Alcor: Board Member

Re: ruptured blood vessels

Post by bwowk » Sat Oct 15, 2011 11:06 pm

Hi. I'm not sure I understand what you are specifically proposing. Certainly if there are major vessels damaged by trauma, and if they are clinically significant to the cryonics process, attempts will be made to repair them. The contract surgeon who Alcor uses for neuropreservation is in fact a neurosurgeon.

However, with respect to damaged brain blood vessels, cases in which repair would be possible or useful would be very rare. Consider hemorrhagic stroke. If you acutely survive and legally die sometime later, the damage will have already been done. If you legally die immediately from the stroke, there will be no way of knowing that a stroke was the cause of death without the brain being cut into sections during an autopsy(!). You definitely don't want that. If Alcor can successfully negotiate to avoid an autopsy after a sudden, unexpected legal death, it will follow standard cryopreservation procedures because it won't know the cause of death. (By the way, in cases of unexpected death with no standby, those procedures would not generally include chest compressions or blood circulation for any significant length of time because those procedures are not indicated when legal death occurred hours earlier.)

So it's hard to imagine a scenario where cerebrovascular surgery would be indicated and performed for a cryonics case, although Alcor has the theoretical capability to do it.

Post Reply