Tell me if i'm getting this right

Cryobiology topics
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garethnelsonuk
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Tell me if i'm getting this right

Post by garethnelsonuk » Thu Oct 02, 2014 12:11 am

http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/44 ... ve-system/

So, this system prevents ice crystal growth using electromagnetic fields and thus no need for any cryoprotectant (or at least way less cryoprotectant) and is being used commercially for food processing, presumably at way higher temps than LN2.

Would I be correct in theorising you could keep the EM field going during descent to cryogenic temps to stop ice crystal formation and then use slow rewarming to reverse the process?

Failing that, if this can't be taken to cryogenic temperatures what are the technical reasons preventing such a feat?

What's to stop, for example, sedating a small animal like a lab rat and slowly cooling it using this system all the way down to -196c, or even just dry ice temps with full viability?

I suspect that this is too obvious an idea and that there's a technical reason why it's not that easy, so i'm curious what the more educated have to say.

criley
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Re: Tell me if i'm getting this right

Post by criley » Mon Oct 06, 2014 8:30 pm

Interesting!

TDK
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Re: Tell me if i'm getting this right

Post by TDK » Thu Oct 16, 2014 4:07 pm

Yeah, that's a very interesting concept.

If it creates a perfect "freeze", with no cell fracturing, ice crystals, etc,
the next question is if it maintains that structure, once the EM field is
turned off. If so, it would be awesome for Alcor to use this during the
cooldown process, and once the point of freezing is reached, then
the patient could be taken out of the EM freezer, and transferred
into the normal liquid nitrogen dewar. That way, Alcor could purchase
just one of those freezers, enough to contain one body, but would
not need to replace all the dewars.

garethnelsonuk
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Re: Tell me if i'm getting this right

Post by garethnelsonuk » Thu Oct 16, 2014 5:41 pm

Ice crystal formation and fracturing occurs during the cooldown and temperature variation, so if the temperature is kept uniform the whole time there shouldn't be any NEW ice crystals or fractures.

My guess is the technology in question doesn't work at cryogenic temperatures, because it just seems too obvious otherwise to use it for cryostasis without cryoprotectants.

As I understand it, the current problems with cryonics are a mix of ice crystal formation and osmosis combined with the toxicity of cryoprotectants and fractures - if you have no need for cryoprotectants and you can "turn off" ice crystal formation, slowly lowering an entire living organism's temperature down should "just work" by robbing molecules of the energy they need to move and perform active chemical processes and metabolism.

TDK
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Re: Tell me if i'm getting this right

Post by TDK » Thu Nov 06, 2014 5:25 pm

I really hope Alcor can pursue some experiments in using this technology.

garethnelsonuk
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Re: Tell me if i'm getting this right

Post by garethnelsonuk » Tue Nov 11, 2014 12:30 am

http://singularityhub.com/2011/01/23/fo ... gans-next/

Looked around everywhere to find what temp it actually uses - only -10c

Still a massive step in the right direction though!

RibJig
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Re: Tell me if i'm getting this right

Post by RibJig » Sat Nov 14, 2015 3:47 pm

TDK wrote:I really hope Alcor can pursue some experiments in using this technology.
I really hope Alcor reps can respond to this thread.

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