Grandfathered underfunding

All topics about cryopreservation costs, membership dues, etc.
Post Reply
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2011 1:38 pm
Relationship with Alcor: Member

Grandfathered underfunding

Post by Holodoc » Sun Dec 18, 2011 2:09 pm

Hi Alcor: If my calculations are right, the increase to me would amount 138/mo over twenty years (my estimated remaining life) or 268/mo over ten years. As you may recall, I have been disabled for the past two years and have had to retire my positions on the advisory board and rescue team. I have been operated on twice and am recovering, though I will never regain the lost time and energy from my career as an artist. I am currently living on my social security (936/mo) and while my expenses are low due to the generosity of my girl friend who provides my housing and all utilities, I am still on the edge and cannot possibly afford this charge. It may happen that my career will pick up or that I will outlive those in my family who are in front of me for the trust monies left by my father. I am not counting on either. If either of those conditions apply I will be happy to pick up my underfunding, until then; What? Thank you for your consideration. Dr. Robert Newport, A-1601, member since 1998

Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2011 9:07 am
Relationship with Alcor: Member

Re: Grandfathered underfunding

Post by bethbailey » Mon Dec 19, 2011 10:02 am

Rather than beginning a new thread, I thought it best to reply under this existing topic of Grandfathered Underfunding. When my husband and I signed up for whole body preservation, the cost was $150,000 each. It is now $200,000 and most likely will increase both in the near future, as well as over the long term. Unfortunately, as much as we would like to remain members of Alcor, we would be financially unable to if Alcor requires us to "catch up" with the escalating costs of cryopreservation.

In our situation, I am disabled and unable to work, while my husband has two part time jobs with no benefits. In addition, he is always under the cloud of one or both jobs being discontinued. Switching to neuro-preservation is anathema to us and therefore, not a viable option.

1. Would it be possible for Alcor to partner with CI to offer underfunded whole body members a lower cost alternative including standby, transport, cryopreservation and storage?

2. Can Alcor assist members without children and/or close heirs with “planned giving” such as an estate gift through a bequest in a Will or Living Trust?

Beth Bailey, Alcor Member

Posts: 67
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 11:09 pm
Relationship with Alcor: Board Member

Re: Grandfathered underfunding

Post by bwowk » Thu Dec 22, 2011 3:28 am

Dr. Bob,

In your present circumstances you may find it more affordable to pay the annual underfunding fee rather than increase your funding. If implemented, the fee will start at 0.3% of the underfunded amount in the middle of next year, and increase to 1% of underfunding in 2014. You might also qualify for a hardship exemption.


You can use any of the standard funding methods to increase your cryonics funding

including placing assets in a revocable trust. See section "3. Trusts" on the above page.

Posts: 49
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2011 10:38 pm
Relationship with Alcor: Member since 1989. Board member since May 21, 1998.
Location: Cupertino, CA

Re: Grandfathered underfunding

Post by Merkle » Fri Dec 30, 2011 2:11 pm

As currently proposed a typical neuro or whole body member who was underfunded by the amounts shown below, and who was not a hardship case, would eventually see their monthly payments increase as follows:

Case one: a neuro member with funding of $50,000 who was underfunded by $30,000. After the full 1% underfunding fee becomes payable in 2014 this member would pay an extra $25 per month ($300/12).

Case two: a whole body member with funding of $150,000 who was underfunded by $50,000. After the full underfunding fee becomes payable in 2014, and assuming that whole body minimums are not increased, this member would pay an extra $41.67 per month ($500/12).


Re: Grandfathered underfunding

Post by paulwakfer » Sat Dec 31, 2011 6:56 pm

I was very surprised not to find among the various options for solving the underfunding problem, what I consider as the very first, most acceptable and obvious step;

Make it totally clear that grandfathering does not apply to all new members from this time on. This will mean that all new members will necessarily need to arrange for CPI indexed life insurance and/or provide the necessary additional funding as and when the cryopreservation minimums are increased. If other major cost saving and funding measures are also taken this will enable Alcor to keep its non-contractual but still clearly made historical promises of grandfathering.

Some possible measures would be:

1) Increasing current funding minimums so that the major part of the yearly income from cryopreseravations goes to the organizational operational expenses (as for any normal company providing a product or service).
2) Drastically reducing operational expenses, likely incurring a reduction in numbers and/or salaries of staff.
3) Cease doing research in-house - this is a job for companies such as 21CM, SA and CCRI.
4) Find ways to reduce patient care costs - as former owner/operator of a long-term patient care company, I have lots of ideas here (some of which I have suggested on other threads).
5) Invest patient care funds in stocks (hard to go wrong in the long run with indexed funds - which also have low fees - see Vanguard) rather than in money market CDs and bonds all of which only serve to aid and abet the existence and harmful actions of the US government (which is one reason why I have no interest in providing Alcor with any investment funds - why I did not even consider prepaying our cryopreservations when we rejoined).

As stated elsewhere, although we had both been signed up for cryopreservation before with CryoCare (and before that, I with Alcor), I and Kitty reenrolled specifically because we were persuaded (sucked in?) to sign up by the argument that if we started our signup before the end of the year, we would only need to have $50K for neuro instead of the $80K which that minimum would be after the end of the year (2005). Since that time the funding in our life insured variable annuities has risen to over $61K (even at this low stock market time). The entire value of each of our individual funds is payable to Alcor upon our deaths but since only the original $50K in each fund is actually guaranteed I expect Alcor to now maintain that we are underfunded by $30K and charge us a percentage of that. While we had both been highly annoyed at the major yearly fee increase and had seriously considered letting our official enrollment elapse (we had only not done so in order to give Max More a chance to turn things around - a job which he has made some inroads at by looking into major cost areas, but not nearly adequately IMO) if Alcor goes ahead with major additional fees for us, then we will surely drop out (as I expect many dozens of other members will also do - I know one other member also thinking seriously of doing so). Currently we have not yet paid our fees for 2012, as of the end of 2011, and we will not be doing so until we find out the official and final decision of Alcor on their approach to their financial problems.

Post Reply